49 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2000, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 36th Parliament

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Issue 76

Wednesday, September 20, 2000
1:30 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, DeWare, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Forrestall, Furey, Gauthier, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kennedy, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lawson, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Squires, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, *Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, DeWare, *Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Forrestall, Furey, Gauthier, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, *Johnson, Joyal, Kennedy, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lawson, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, *Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Squires, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe, *Wilson

PRAYERS

Tribute was paid to the memory of the Honourable E.W. (Staff) Barootes, former Senator, whose death occurred July 30, 2000.

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Spivak, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources, presented its Fourth Report (Bill S-20, An Act to enable and assist the Canadian tobacco industry in attaining its objective of preventing the use of tobacco products by young persons in Canada) without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Presentation of Petitions

The Honourable Senator Spivak presented a petition:

Of Residents of Salt Spring Island, in the Province of British Columbia, concerning microwave cellular phone antennae.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the Notice of Motion given by the Honourable Senator Hays pursuant to Rule 39(1) respecting Bill C-37.

Debate.

SPEAKER'S RULING

First, let me point out that the motion before us is identical to previous motions of the same type that have been moved. There are no changes in the wording.

I refer all honourable senators to rule 39(1), which can be found on page 41 of the red book. It sets out the procedure exactly. That rule will answer the questions raised by Honourable Senator Nolin and Honourable Senator Roche.

The proposed notice of motion by Honourable Senator Hayes is as follows:

I give notice that tomorrow, Thursday, September 21, 2000, I will move:

That, pursuant to Rule 39, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated to dispose of third reading of Bill C-37, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act;

That when the debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceedings then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the third reading of the said bill; and

That any recorded vote or votes on the said question be taken in accordance with the provisions of Rule 39(4).

Honourable senators, it is clear that the proposed motion sets out the day, the hour and the terms concerned and that the third reading will take place at the end of that debate.

Insofar as the point raised by the Honourable Senator Kinsella is concerned, I refer specifically to rule 39(1), which simply states that if "the Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate, from his or her place in the Senate, may state that the representatives of the parties have failed to agree to allocate a specified number of days or hours," that allows the deputy leader to give notice.

Honourable senators, the deputy leader has stated that an agreement has not been reached. I have no means of knowing whether an agreement will be reached. All I have before me is a motion stating that if they have reached no agreement at this point, the rule has been followed and the terms have been set out. Therefore, I rule that the point of order is not valid.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hays, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., for the third reading of Bill C-37, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act.

After debate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that the Bill C-37 be not now read a third time but that it be referred back to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce so that the Committee may hear further witnesses on this Bill; and that the Committee report back to the Senate no later than October 2, 2000.

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), that debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on division.

DEFERRED DIVISION

At 3:30 p.m., pursuant to the Order adopted yesterday, the Senate proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:

That a Special Committee of the Senate be appointed to examine and report on two significant matters which involve the conduct of chain of command of the Canadian Forces, both in-theatre and at National Defence Headquarters and its response to operational, decision making and administrative problems encountered during the Somalia deployment to the extent that these matters have not been examined by the Commission of Inquiry into the Deployment of Canadian Forces to Somalia and allegations that Canadian soldiers were exposed to toxic substances in Croatia between 1993 and 1995, and the alleged destruction of medical records of personnel serving in Croatia;

That the Committee in examining these issues may call witnesses from whom it believes it may obtain evidence relevant to these matters including but not limited to :

1. The present Minister of Defence in relation to both matters;

2. Former Ministers of National Defence in relation to both matters;

3. The then Deputy Minister of National Defence in relation to both matters;

4. The then Acting Chief of Staff of the Minister of National Defence in relation to the Somalia occurrence;

5. The then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (M. Campbell) in relation to the Somalia occurrence;

6. The then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (J. Dixon) in relation to the Somalia occurrence;

7. The persons occupying the position of Judge Advocate General during the relevant period in relation to the Somalia occurrence;

8. The then Deputy Judge Advocate General (litigation) in relation to the Somalia occurrence; and

9. The then Chief of Defence Staff and Deputy Chief of Defence Staff in relation to both occurrences.

That seven Senators, nominated by the Committee of Selection act as members of the Special Committee, and that three members constitute a quorum;

That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses under oath, to report from time to time and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee;

That the Committee have power to authorize television and radio broadcasting, as it deems appropriate, of any or all of its proceedings;

That the Committee have the power to engage the services of such counsel and other professional, technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purposes of its examination;

That the political parties represented on the Special Committee be granted allocations for expert assistance with the work of the Committee;

That it be empowered to adjourn from place to place within and outside Canada;

That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;

That the Committee submit its report not later than one year from the date of it being constituted, provided that, if the Senate is not sitting, the report will be deemed submitted on the day such report is deposited with the Clerk of the Senate.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk , Atkins, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Buchanan, Carney, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, DeWare, Forrestall, Gustafson, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Robertson, Roche, Rossiter, Simard, Spivak, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk-28

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Boudreau, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Furey, Gauthier, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kennedy, Kenny, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lawson, Maheu, Mahovlich, Mercier, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Poulin, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Squires, Taylor, Watt, Wiebe-46,

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Prud'homme-1

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Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Statutes of the Northwest Territories for February and March 2000, pursuant to the Northwest Territories Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-22, sbs. 21(1).-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-523.

Report on the administration of the Atlantic Fisheries Restructuring Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2000, pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-14, sbs. 8(1).-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-524.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

(Accordingly, at 3:38 p.m. the Senate was continued until 2:00 p.m. tomorrow.)

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce

The name of the Honourable Senator Finnerty substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick (September 19).

Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs

The name of the Honourable Senator Christensen substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Fraser (September 19).

Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders

The name of the Honourable Senator Stratton substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Di Nino (September 20).

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